(Humanities: Year One)

*mrsfain* Let's start things off with a prayer. 
*mrsfain* As we pray, let's ask the Lord to hear the intentions we all hold in our hearts. 
*mrsfain* In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit... 
*mrsfain* You are 
*mrsfain* The True Font of Light and Wisdom. 
*mrsfain* Grant to each us 
*mrsfain* Keenness of mind, 
*mrsfain* Capacity to remember, 
*mrsfain* Skill in learning, 
*mrsfain* Subtlety to interpret, 
*mrsfain* And eloquence in communication 
*Mary* . 
*mrsfain* May You 
*mrsfain* Guide the beginning of our work, 
*mrsfain* Direct its progress, 
*mrsfain* And bring it to completion. 
*mrsfain* In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, 
*mrsfain* Amen. 
*Will* Amen. 
*Tom* Amen. 
*Sean* Amen. 
*Mike* amen 
*Annie* Amen 
*Jack* amen 
*Barbara* Amen 
*Ken* Amen 
*Mary* Amen. 
*mrsfain* OK, today we are going to talk about three things. 
*Cathy* amen 
*Jim* Amen 
*mrsfain* We are going to talk about Socrates, Oedipus Rex and the semester essay exam.  
*mrsfain* Does anyone have any questions about the essay exam? 
*Tom* ? 
*Tom* and a ! 
*Mary* ! 
*Will* ? 
*mrsfain* ga, Tom 
*Tom* 1. ? Section II refers to what part of the readings? 
*mrsfain* For section II, you can pull quotes from any of the readings we have read in class. 
*Tom* Ok, so everything from the beginning of the year on. 
*mrsfain* We are going by the honors system here. 
* DrOBrien has joined #class114 
*mrsfain* Who in here today did not answer two scriptorium questions? 
* erinj has joined #class114 
*mrsfain* So everybody answered two scriptorium questions for this week? 
*Will* I did. 
* magistra has joined #class114 
*Jack* yes man 
*Mary* yes, mrs. fain. 
*Cathy* Yes I did 
*Annie* I did 
*Barbara* Yes I did 
*Jack* *mam 
*Daniel* yes I did 
*Ken* yes 
*Elizabeth* yes 
*Tom* I did. 
*Mike* i did 
*Jim* yse 
*mrsfain* Good! You guys are so good. 
*mrsfain* Oh, Magistra can you introduce our guest? 
*magistra* I hope your students make a good impression on our new teacher, Mrs. Fain *g* 
*magistra* Oh, they haven't met him yet? 
*magistra* OK, I'll be glad to do that. 
*magistra* Students, please say Hello to the famous writer and history professor, Dr. Steve O'Brien.... 
*Jim* HELLo 
*Tom* Hello, DrOBrien! 
*magistra* readers of "The Latin Mass" will recognize him immediately for his great biographises. 
*Mike* hello 
*Jack* hi 
*Barbara* Howdy! 
*Will* Hello!! 
*Mary* Hello, Dr. O'Brian! 
*magistra* *biographies 
*Sean* Hello Dr. Obrien 
* TravisT has joined #class114 
*Ken* Hello 
*Jim* nice to meet you. 
*Annie* Hello. 
*Mary* *O' Brien :S 
*Elizabeth* hello 
*magistra* He is our new Church History teacher and he wanTravis to visit this class to get a 
bit familiar with the "ropes." 
*Cathy* Hello Dr. O'Brian 
*Barbara* Cool! 
*DrOBrien* salvete, everyone. I'm only famous to Magistra 
*Daniel* Hi Dr. O'Brian 
*magistra* So make a good impression on him; we're very fortunate to get him on our faculty. 
*mrsfain* We are very happy to have you on board, Dr. O'Brien. 
*magistra* Hardly, Dr. O'Brien*g* 
*magistra* I'll bet we have a lot of TLM readers in this class. 
*Ken* Salve 
*magistra* OK, well, my Latin III students are orphans right now while I'm in here so I'd better scoot. 
*magistra* Have a great class, as I know you will. 
*magistra* Valete~~~~ 
*mrsfain* Thanks, Magistra. 
* magistra has left #class114 
*Jack* bye 
*Tom* lol 
*DrOBrien* Don't let me disturb the class 
*mrsfain* Dr. O'Brien... 
*mrsfain* thanks for visiting today. 
*Will* Well, I have studied Joquin Des Prez, if that counts. 
*mrsfain* If you have any questions or comments... 
*mrsfain* please don't hold back. 
*Cathy* ? 
*mrsfain* ga, Cathy 
*Cathy* I have a ? about the essay, What do you mean by "Literary Elements"? 
*mrsfain* Cathy, have you done the Scavenger Hunt post? 
*Cathy* Yes I did 
*Ken* ? 
*mrsfain* Well, you had to find literary elements as part of that scavenger hunt. 
*mrsfain* Those are all literary elements. 
*mrsfain* Mary had a question about the essay exam. 
*Cathy* oh I see thanks 
*Mary* Tom questioned it. Thankyou! 
*mrsfain* Ken, what is your question? 
*Ken* When is the essay due. 
*Ken* End of the mounth? 
*mrsfain* I believe the due date is in the scriptorium. 
*Ken* ty 
*mrsfain* Any other questions on the essay exam? 
Jack no mam 
*Daniel* not here 
*Mary* no, mrs. fain. 
*AlexandraP* No 
*Mike* nope 
*Ken* nope 
*mrsfain* OK, great. 
*mrsfain* OK, on to the lesson... 
*mrsfain* Can a fictional story, or even a play or poem teach us truth? 
*Tom* ! 
*Mary* ! 
Jack ! 
*Barbara* ! 
*Will* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Jack 
*Sean* ! 
*Travis* ! 
*Ken* ! 
*Cathy* ! 
Jack Of course! A play or story can contain truth and values 
*Daniel* ! 
*mrsfain* OK, how can a fictional story contain truth, though? 
*Tom* ! 
Jack me? 
*Sean* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Jack 
*Travis* ! 
*Daniel* ! 
*Ken* ! 
*Will* ! 
Jack I the author of the fiction puts some form of reality in his story 
*mrsfain* OK, good. 
*mrsfain* Does anybody want to add anything to what Jack said? 
*Tom* By having the characters act justly in accordance with God's law, even if it's hard. 
*Cathy* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Cathy 
*Travis* ! 
*Sean* ! 
*Tom* ! 
*Cathy* It contains a moral 
*mrsfain* OK, good. 
*mrsfain* What did you want to say, Sean? 
*Sean* By the Actions of the Character, he can give an example of Ideal behavior. 
*mrsfain* OK, good. 
*Mary* ? 
*mrsfain* ga, Mary 
*Travis* ! 
*Mary* Does Sean mean he as in Oedipus? 
*Sean* No, I meant the author 
*Mary* oh ok 
*mrsfain* Well, a fictional story, although not historically true... 
*mrsfain* can serve as a vehicle for carrying the truth. 
*mrsfain* Although we have read and will read... 
*mrsfain* non-fiction stories and accounts in World lit... 
*mrsfain* the great majority of what we read... 
*mrsfain* will be fiction or poetry. 
*mrsfain* Whenever you read something in this class... 
*mrsfain* ask yourself whether it is "true." 
*mrsfain* We are going to start class today... 
*mrsfain* by taking a look at a passage... 
*mrsfain* in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. 
*mrsfain* In the catechism, on p. 321, section 1260... 
*mrsfain* it states... 
*mrsfain* "Since Christ died for all... 
*mrsfain* and since all men are in fact called.... 
*Mary* . 
*mrsfain* to one and the same destiny, which is divine... 
*mrsfain* we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all... 
*mrsfain* the possibility of being made partakers, 
*mrsfain* in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery." 
*mrsfain* Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ... 
*mrsfain* and of his Church, but seeks the truth... 
*mrsfain* and does the will of God in accordance... 
*mrsfain* with his understanding of it, can be saved. 
*mrsfain* It may be supposed that such persons would have desired... 
*mrsfain* Baptism explicity had they known its necessity. 
*mrsfain* Can anyone tell me what this passage means? 
*Tom* ! 
*Will* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Will
*Ken* ! 
*Will* It explains how Man is to take part in the "Paschal mystery." 
*Will* How it is possible for him too. 
*mrsfain* OK, it does... 
*mrsfain* what else does it say? 
*Tom* ! 
Jack ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Jack 
Jack I am a little lost, what are we dicussing 
*mrsfain* Well, we talked about truth and how fiction can be a vehicle for truth. 
*mrsfain* Now, I just posTravis a passage from the Catechism about truth. 
*mrsfain* I am wanting to know what the passage means. 
*mrsfain* What do you think, Tom? 
Jack ok 
*Tom* Those who have not been baptized, THROUGH NOT FAULT OF THEIR OWN, can still be saved, 
if they act justly. 
*mrsfain* Right. 
*Tom* If they act in accordance to God's Law, 
*mrsfain* Is there a term for that? 
*Travis* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Travis 
*Tom* to the BEST OF THEIR ABILITIES, they'll still be saved. 
*Travis* If they're ignorant of the Catholic faith and still act justly, then they can be saved. 
*mrsfain* Good, Travis. 
*Tom* ! 
Jack ! 
*mrsfain* Let me underscore the fact that our faith... 
*mrsfain* will not allow us to say that a particular person... 
*mrsfain* is in Hell. 
*mrsfain* We are forbidden to judge a person's soul. 
*Mary* ! 
*mrsfain* Based on what we read above in the Catechism, though... 
*mrsfain* could it be possible that Socrates could fall in this category? 
*Travis* ! 
*Tom* ! 
Jack ! 
*mrsfain* ...of someone who sought the Truth? 
*mrsfain* ga, Travis 
*Ken* ! 
*Travis* No, my sister was reading a biography about him and he did not lead a decent 
life in any way whatsoever. 
*mrsfain* Then I want to hear from Ken. 
*mrsfain* Well, since I haven't read the book your sister read... 
*mrsfain* I can't speak to that. 
*Tom* ! 
* Catherine has joined #class114 
*mrsfain* Based on what we read in this textbook, what do you think, Ken? 
*Ken* I thik not because I heard that he poisoned himself in pison. 
*Barbara* ! 
*Ken* Sorry think 
Jack ! 
*mrsfain* I believe they made him poison himself, though. It was a form of execution. 
Jack DITTO 
*Tom* (It was the death sentence, proclaimed by the Athenian jury of 501 citizens.) 
*Tom* (To drink hemlock) 
*Travis* ! 
*mrsfain* Ken, you are right, though... 
*mrsfain* if someone kills himself, that is a sin. 
*mrsfain* ga, Beth 
*Barbara* I think he was searching for truth, because all people who don't know truth are looking 
for it wheter they know it or not. It is our nature. 
* Jack claps 
*mrsfain* OK, so you think he was seeking truth. 
*Barbara* yes 
*Cathy* ! 
*Travis* ! 
*Tom* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Tom 
*Tom* He was seeking the Truth. 
*Tom* He was doing his best to guide the Athenian citizens toward that Truth. 
*mrsfain* You all may be interesting to know the following... 
*mrsfain* St. Justin Martyr called Socrates a proto-Christian. 
*Barbara* ? 
*Mary* ? 
Jack ! 
*Travis* ? 
*mrsfain* ga, Mary 
*Mary* What do you mean by proto- Christian? 
*Travis* ! 
*mrsfain* OK, good question. 
*mrsfain* Does anyone want to guess what that means? 
*Tom* ! 
*Ken* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Ken 
*Travis* ! 
*Ken* Before but much like Christains. 
*Barbara* Ahh!!! 
Jack ! 
*Barbara* Good one! 
*Cathy* ! 
*mrsfain* good Ken... 
*Mary* ! 
*Travis* ! 
*mrsfain* someone who exhibits Christ-like qualities and ideas before Christ was born into the world. 
*Mary* So Socrates was like a Christian once before? 
*mrsfain* I want to hear from some of you who aren't raising your hands. 
Jack as a phiolsipher wasn't the seeking of truth his life work anyway 
*Mary* oh, ok Thank you!! 
*mrsfain* Everyone raise your hands before commenting. 
*Will* ? 
Jack sry 
*mrsfain* ga, Will 
*Will* I don't quite understand what the latter question meant... 
*mrsfain* I want to hear from some of my smart, shy students. 
*mrsfain* Which question?  
*Will* So Socrates was like a Christian once before? 
*mrsfain* No, I think St. Justin Martyr was saying... 
*mrsfain* that Socrates exhibits Christian virtues and held Christian ideals... 
*Travis* ! 
*mrsfain* before Christ was born into the world. 
*Will* ! 
*Tom* ! 
*Allison* ! 
*Mary* ok,I get it now. TY! 
*mrsfain* What do we know about Socrates' life? 
Jack ! 
*Will* ! 
*Ken* ! 
*Tom* ! 
*Travis* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Will 
*mrsfain* After this, I want to hear from some of the rest of you. 
*Daniel* ! 
*Cathy* ! 
*Will* It says in the book that from a Aristocratic famliy, and was rehtorically gifTravis, 
and walked about the streets teaching. 
*mrsfain* OK, good. 
*mrsfain* ga, Daniel 
*Daniel* same as Will
*Daniel* He was very intelligent 
*Daniel* and his teaching were always very, 
*mrsfain* OK, good. 
*Daniel* (can't think of the word) 
*Daniel* *sigh* 
*mrsfain* engaging? 
*Daniel* yes! 
*mrsfain* According to sources, he referred to a "divine voice," 
*mrsfain* which according to the Catholic Encyclopedia, was probably.... 
*mrsfain* his peculiar way of referring to his conscience. 
*mrsfain* Socrates did not write anything. Everything we know about him... 
*mrsfain* has been told to us by Plato and Xenophon, another Greek philosopher. 
*mrsfain* He was opposed to the Sophists, who taught there was no objective... 
*mrsfain* standard of true and false. 
*mrsfain* That sounds a lot like the moral relativism we encounter today. 
*mrsfain* Until Socrates, morality was taught not by scientifically determined principles... 
*mrsfain* but through proverbs and instances. 
*mrsfain* Socrates said that the greatest source of prevalent confusion... 
*mrsfain* is the failure to realize how little we know about anything. 
*mrsfain* So for Socrates, the phrase, "Know Thyself," means we should realize... 
*mrsfain* the extent of our own ignorance. 
*mrsfain* According to the Catholic Encyclopedia... 
*mrsfain* he met his fate with a calmness and dignity which has earned him... 
*mrsfain* a high place among those who suffered unjustly for conscience's sake. 
*Mary* . 
*mrsfain* The word philosophy comes from the words Philein, which means "to love..." 
*mrsfain* and Sophia, which means "wisdom." 
*mrsfain* In essence, the word philosophy means "love of wisdom." 
*mrsfain* Several Church fathers, such as Justin, Clement of Alexandria, 
*mrsfain* and Origen spoke admiringly of Hellenistic religions... 
*mrsfain* and philosophical figures, saying that they draw upon the "seeds of the word." 
*mrsfain* Some believed Socrates lived according to "the logos." 
*mrsfain* The fathers used this doctrine to convince pagans... 
*mrsfain* that Christianity is the fulfillment of their imperfect ideas, 
*mrsfain* not confirm them in that imperfection. 
*Tom* ? 
*mrsfain* ga, Tom 
*Tom* "the logos." ? 
*mrsfain* Can someone look up "logos" for us? 
*Mary* ! 
*Will* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Will 
*Tom* ! 
*mrsfain* Let's talk a minute about the Socratic method. 
*mrsfain* This is a method of learning used by law schools and some universities. 
*Will* Doesn't it mean "Word" or "Logic"? (In the beginning Logos) 
*Tom* (I've got a dictionary def) 
*Mary* same here Tom 
*mrsfain* I believe so. What does the dictionary state, Tom? 
*mrsfain* It has two stages, the negative and the positive. 
*mrsfain* In the negative stage... 
*mrsfain* Socrates would approach his pupil with an attitude of assumed ignorance. 
*Mike* Philosophy. 
*Mike* In pre-Socratic philosophy, the principle governing the cosmos, the source of this principle, 
or human reasoning about the cosmos. 
*Mike* Among the Sophists, the topics of rational argument or the arguments themselves. 
*Mike* In Stoicism, the active, material, rational principle of the cosmos; nous. 
Identified with God, it is the source of all activity and generation and 
is the power of reason residing in the human soul. 
*Mary* . 
*Tom* Main Entry: logo 
*Tom* Pronunciation: 'lO-(")gO also 'lä- 
*Tom* Function: noun 
*Tom* InflecTravis Form(s): plural log·os /-(")gOz/ 
*Tom* 1 : LOGOTYPE 
*Tom* 2 : an identifying statement : MOTTO 
*Tom* Is that it? 
*mrsfain* Thank you Mike and Tom. 
*Barbara* ? 
*Tom* Of course. 
*mrsfain* ga, Barbara 
*Barbara* could you go just a bit slower? 
*Mary* ditto 
Jack dotto 
*mrsfain* OK 
*Mike* sorry i only got half of it 
*Barbara* ty! 
*Mary* ty 
Jack none of it 
*Jim* all of it 
*mrsfain* Well, you guys can get the definition better when the log is posTravis. 
* MaryM will say the definition 
*mrsfain* Let me go back to the Socratic Method for a minute... 
*mrsfain* It has two stages, the negative and the positive. 
*mrsfain* In the negative stage... 
*mrsfain* Socrates would approach his pupil with an attitude of assumed ignorance. 
*mrsfain* He would ask questions as if he were obtained information that he didn't have. 
*mrsfain* He would ask question after question, until the pupil would confess his own ignorance. 
*mrsfain* The pretended deference Socrates would pay to his pupil was called "Socratic irony." 
*mrsfain* In the positive stage, 
*mrsfain* after the pupil had acknowledged his ignorance Socrates... 
*mrsfain* would ask another series of questions, each of which would bring out... 
*mrsfain* some new aspect of the subject. 
*Mary* . 
*mrsfain* OK, any questions about what we just discussed? 
*Tom* No, ma'am. 
*Mike* nope 
*Mary* no, mrs. fain 
*Ken* no 
*Barbara* no ma'am 
*Jim* o 
*Daniel* not here 
*Travis* ? 
*Jim* no 
Jack no mum 
*Will* No 
*Elizabeth* no 
*mrsfain* OK, let's talk about Oedipus Rex a bit. 
Jack yay 
*mrsfain* Was Oedipus Rex a hero? 
*Tom* ! 
*Cathy* ! 
Jack ! 
*Ken* ! 
*Daniel* ! 
*Travis* ! 
*Mike* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Mike 
*Sean* ! 
*Will* ! 
*Mike* yes 
*Catherine* ! 
*mrsfain* Why, Mike? 
*Mike* he got rid of the sphinx 
Jack ! 
*mrsfain* Good point. 
*Tom* ! 
*mrsfain* What do you think, Catherine? 
*Travis* ! 
*Catherine* Yes, even he tried to do what would help his people, like solve the Sphinx's riddle. 
*Cathy* ! 
*mrsfain* OK, Catherine. 
*Catherine* * he always tried* 
*mrsfain* What do you think, Sean? 
*Sean* Yes he was, he showed the heroic traits of self-sacrifice, honesty, courage, and 
*Sean* resolution 
Jack ! 
*mrsfain* Good answer, Sean. 
*Tom* ! 
*Travis* ! 
*mrsfain* OK, let me ask all of you another question. 
*Jim* ! 
*mrsfain* According to the Cathechism, did Oedipus Rex commit any moral sins? 
*Tom* ! 
*Travis* ! 
*Allison* ! 
*Mary* ! 
Jack ! 
*Cathy* ! 
*Jim* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Jim? 
*Catherine* ! 
*Mike* ! 
*Jim* He killed his father thats a sin. 
Jack ditto 
Jack ? 
*Tom* ! 
*mrsfain* OK, that is true... 
*Mike* ! 
*mrsfain* Well, what if you killed someone in self-defense... 
*mrsfain* would that be a sin? 
*Tom* ! 
*Mary* ! 
*Will* ! 
*Ken* he killed his father in a rage and he was not himself 
*Travis* ! 
*Catherine* ! 
*Jim* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Catherine 
Jack ! 
*Jim* in self self-defense. 
*Catherine* No. Because it would be fighting for your own life... 
*Jim* well is your life more importent than who your fighting? 
*mrsfain* OK, so it is possible to kill someone in self-defense and it not be a sin. 
*Catherine* But he did not kill his father in selfdefense. 
Jack he murdered five people 
*mrsfain* Right, he didn't. 
*Tom* ! 
*Ken* but it wasn't in self defence 
*mrsfain* I just want you to hold that thought in your heads for a minute. 
Jack not just his dad 
*mrsfain* Someone give the defintion of mortal sin. 
*Tom* ! 
*Travis* ! 
Jack !] 
*Mike* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Mike 
*Cathy* ! 
*Mary* ! 
*Mike* To make a sin mortal we read from the Catechism of the Catholic Church 
(paragraph 1857) “Three conditions must together be met: Mortal sin is sin whose 
object is grave Mikeer and which is also commitTravis with full knowledge 
and deliberate consent” 
Jack ! 
*mrsfain* good, Mike. 
*mrsfain* So, is there a chance Oedipus Rex may not have commitTravis mortal sins... 
*Tom* ! 
*mrsfain* when he murdered, married his mother, etc. 
*mrsfain* ga, Tom 
*Tom* Yes. It depends upon his state of mind. 
*Travis* ! 
*Cathy* ! 
Jack ! 
*mrsfain* Can you elaborate, Tom? 
*Tom* Also, we are not to judge whether or not he commitTravis a mortal sin. 
*Tom* Ok. 
*Tom* He might not have believed that it was such a grave evil. 
*mrsfain* Well, you are 100 percent correct about we are not to judge. 
*Travis* ! 
*mrsfain* However, since Oedipus Rex is a fictional character... 
*Tom* We canNOT say that he is, definitively, in the state of mortal sin. 
*mrsfain* we can look at it objectively... 
*mrsfain* and discuss what mortal sin is and what it isn't. 
*Tom* Wasn't OR a real king in Greece? 
*Tom* Was he ONLY fictional? 
*mrsfain* There *may* have been one at one time, but the story is fictional... 
*mrsfain* is that correct, Dr. O'Brien? 
*Travis* ! 
*Jack* May I point someting out? 
*mrsfain* Let's hear from Travis, then Jack. 
*Jack* ty 
*Travis* I doubt at any time there was a king in 
*Travis* Greece that killed his father, 
*Mary* I would like to point something, too! 
*Travis* married his mother 
*Tom* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Jack 
*Travis* was left abandoned by his father in the hills 
*Travis* and then came back to his home country after living in some foreign country 
*Jack* A lot of sorrow is kiven to the death of the king but, none to the other four. 
And if the king had not been his father does anyone think he would have cared at all 
*Travis* unless this story was based on the life of a real king. 
*mrsfain* Jack, that is a good point. 
Jack that can tell you wether he sinned or not 
*mrsfain* One of the reasons I wanTravis us to talk about mortal sin and Oedipus Rex... 
*mrsfain* is to get us thinking more about our Catholic faith. 
*mrsfain* Guilt is a good thing if it leads us to repentance. 
*mrsfain* However, if a person has no hope, guilt can destroy him. 
*mrsfain* Also, without our Catholic faith, we humans tend to not feel guilty enough for things that are wrong... 
*mrsfain* and despairing over other things that aren't actually sins. 
*mrsfain* If Oedipus Rex had been a Catholic, do you think this story would have turned out differently? 
*Mary* ! 
*Mike* 1 
*mrsfain* ga, Mary 
Jack ! 
*Mike* ! 
*Will* ! 
*Catherine* ! 
*Tom* !  
*Travis* !@ 
*Barbara* !!! 
*Mary* I think he might of known that killing someone was a mortal sin and that it would separate him from God. 
If he were a Catholic. 
*Daniel* ! 
*Mary* or realized* 
*mrsfain* ga,Mike 
*Mike* it would be very different 
Jack ? 
*mrsfain* OK, Mary. 
*mrsfain* How would it be different, Mike? 
* Catherine has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer) 
*Mike* he he he probably wouldnt kill his father wich means he would not mary his mother or poke his eyeballs out 
*Tom* ! 
*mrsfain* True, Mike. 
*Travis* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Barbara 
*Barbara* Yes, he would have never consulTravis the oracle in the first place. 
*Barbara* And so alot would be differebt!  
*mrsfain* OK, good point. 
*mrsfain* Also, even if he had commitTravis the other sins... 
*mrsfain* he could have gone to confesssion instead of poking his eyes out. 
Jack true 
*mrsfain* *g* 
*Mary* *g* 
*Barbara* Right. I wrote a long explanation if this in the CC   
*Barbara* *wrote 
*Tom* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Tom 
*Tom* I don't think that "marrying his mother" is a sin. He didn't know that Jacosta was his mother. 
Neither did Jacosta. She thought Oedipus was from Corinth. 
*Mike* ! 
*mrsfain* I agree, Tom. 
*Catherine* (sorry, my house lost power for a second) 
*mrsfain* See, that would be another advantage of being Catholic... 
*Tom* He thought that she was just some widow. 
*mrsfain* he would know what things to feel true guilt over, and what not to feel guilt over. 
*mrsfain* ga, Mike 
*Mike* if he had been catholic nothing would have happened and it would have been a boring storie 
*Will* ! 
*Mike* story* 
*mrsfain* Mike, LOL 
Jack lol 
*Travis* ! 
*Barbara* lol 
*Tom* ! 
*Will* lol 
*Mary* lol 
*Catherine* lol 
*Daniel* lol 
*Daniel* but maybe not 
*mrsfain* OK, Daniel...how so? 
*Tom* ! 
*Tom* (To Mike) 
*Daniel* well, The story wouldnt have to nessarily be boring 
*Daniel* it WOULD be different 
*mrsfain* Well, this is true... 
*Daniel* but boring? 
*mrsfain* if you read Mother Theresa's life... 
*Daniel* exactly 
*mrsfain* it wouldn't be boring. 
*Daniel* I was going to say that 
*mrsfain* Good point. I think Mike was being humorous. 
*mrsfain* What makes a saint's life interesting, though... 
*mrsfain* is the whole good v. evil story. 
*mrsfain* When Mother Theresa feeds dying people in India... 
*Daniel* still, the story really relies upon his characters 
*Daniel* and their nature 
*mrsfain* she is doing God's will and triumphing over hopelessness and injustice and sin in the world. 
*Will* ! 
*mrsfain* How else might the characters in Oedipus Rex be different... 
*mrsfain* if they had the sacraments? 
*Tom* ! 
*Barbara* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Barbara 
*Travis* If his parents had been Catholic then they never would have abandoned him and so his 
life would be like any other king's life.! 
*Travis* sorry 
*Barbara* I would be very greek because the wouldn' have alot of god's ect. 
*mrsfain* True. 
*mrsfain* Travis, did you have a comment? 
*Travis* no 
*Travis* I just accidently hit "Return" 
*mrsfain* OK, well you made a good point. 
*mrsfain* His parents would not have given up Oedipus. 
*mrsfain* Why did they give him up? 
*Tom* ! 
*Will* ! 
*Travis* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Will 
*AlexandraP* ! 
*Ken* ! 
*mrsfain* Then we will hear from Alexandra. 
*Will* They gave him up because they believed in the prophetic announcement of the voice, 
and wanTravis to defend themselves. 
*Will* It was somewhat selfish in motive. 
*mrsfain* So, it seems the characters in this story did a lot of maneuvering to avoid their destinies. 
*mrsfain* As Catholics, we are taught to accept what happens to us as God's will... 
*Jim* ! 
*mrsfain* particularly when it comes to suffering. 
*Will* Yes 
*mrsfain* ga, Allison...then we will hear from Ken and Jim 
*Allison* I can't add anything to John's answer.  
*mrsfain* OK... 
*mrsfain* ga, Ken 
*Travis* ? 
*mrsfain* ga, Jim 
*Jim* they were very self-centered when it came to Oedipus. 
*Jim* his parents 
*mrsfain* good point, johnd 
*mrsfain* Did you have a comment, Ken? 
*Ken* They thought that they could change what their destiny by leaving him to die. 
*mrsfain* Good point, Ken. 
*mrsfain* By killing their baby, they thought their lives would improve. 
*mrsfain* That didn't happen, though, did it? 
*Catherine* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Catherine 
*Catherine* Just like abortion nowaadays. 
*mrsfain* Good comparison, Catherine. 
*Barbara* yeah. 
*Catherine* ty 
*Barbara*  
*Barbara* yw 
*mrsfain* It never makes a person or family's life better. 
*mrsfain* Any other questions or comments? 
*Tom* No, ma'am. 
Jack ditto 
*Mike* nope 
Jack no mam 
*Travis* ? 
*Will* No 
*Mary* no, mrs. fain 
*mrsfain* ga, Travis 
*Barbara* no 
*Travis* Is it immoral to believe in destiny? 
*Tom* ! 
*Mary* ! 
*Jim* ! 
*mrsfain* Hmmm.... 
*Daniel* interesting question Travis 
*Allison* ! 
*mrsfain* I believe God has plans for our lives, but we also have free will. 
*Tom* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Jim 
*Jim* Its wrong to believe that you can control your destiny. 
*Jim* its in God hands 
*Cathy* ! 
*Cathy* nvm 
*mrsfain* Well, it is kind of impossible, too, anyway. 
*Mary* ! 
*mrsfain* ga, Tom 
*Jim* we have to accept our destiny 
*Will* ! 
*Ken* ? 
*Tom* Well, there is an element of destiny in all our lives. God knows that, when we die, 
X will happen. We don't know what X is, and therefore, we have to work our way through. 
*Tom* What will happen is set. We just don't know what will happen. 
*Tom* That's why we have to make choices in our individual lives. 
*mrsfain* Plus, it does say in the Psalms that God has appoinTravis our day to die and such... 
*mrsfain* so that is destiny. 
*Tom* Choices not to sin, etc. 
*Tom* There is destiny. We can change our lives, from our finite point of view. 
*mrsfain* Well, it is time for class to end. 
*mrsfain* Thanks for the good discussion. 
*Tom* Thanks for class! 
*mrsfain* You are welcome. 
*Barbara* ditto! 
Jack ty 
*Mary* ditto! 
*Will* Ah, it's already over?  
*Catherine* ? 
*Ken* gracias 
*mrsfain* Yup, Will
*Jim* Thanks rs Fain. 
*mrsfain* ga, Catherine 
*Jim* Mre 
*Jim* mrs 
*Travis* I'd like to ask something. 
*Catherine* nvm. 
*mrsfain* ga, Travis 
*Daniel* Thanks so much for Class Mrs Fain! 
*Travis* Could you all pray for my brother who is coming home from the hospital today. 
*mrsfain* Oh sure! 
*Catherine* ok. 
*AlexandraP* Sure. 
*mrsfain* What is wrong with him? 
*Barbara* right on! 
*Tom* Ok. 
*Mary* aww... I will! 
*Jim* FOR SURE 
*Travis* He broke his knee playing football and is out for the rest of the season 
*Barbara* ouch! 
*Mary* darn! 
*Daniel* how old is he? 
*Barbara* Sure thing! 
*mrsfain* OK, I will. 
*Travis* 15, 16 on Saturday. 
*Daniel* I'll definately pray for him 
*Tom* Happy birthday. 
Jack ditto 
*Barbara* lol 
*Mary* yeah, definitely! 
*Jim* Happy brith to him. 
*Tom* lol to what? 
*mrsfain* Maybe I could create a prayer request link in the scriptorium. 
*Travis* And what's worse is that he was about to get his driver's liscense, but he can't drive now. 
*Tom* I'll pray for him. 
*Barbara* Man! 
*Catherine* Will someone post this? 
*Tom* I'm posting it. 
*Catherine* TY. 
*Tom* Sure. 
Jack Welcome! Mr. O'Brien! 
*Tom* Thanks for class, Mrs. Fain! 
*Tom* God bless, all! 
*Will* What is his name? 
*Travis* But I've gtg now because we've got to pick him up from the hospital so, 
goodbye and thanks for your prayers. 
*mrsfain* Thanks Dr. O'Brien for visiting the class. 
*Travis* Peter 
*mrsfain* OK, I have to go. 
*mrsfain* God bless. 
*Will* Ok, ty. 
*Jim* bye 
Jack bye 
*Mary* It was nice of you to visit, Dr. O'Brien! 
*Mike* cya 
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*Mary* Bye! 
Jack bye 
*Jim* *dances to disco* 
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*Catherine* THanks for class Mrs.Fain! 
*Tom* Thanks for coming, DrOBrien! 
*Will* Bye Everyone else! Nice to meet you, Dr. O'Brien! 
*Mary* Ty, Mrs Fain 
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